25.9.2019 | 23:09
Trump í vanda? Birti samtal Trumps og Zelensky forseta Úkraínu í heild!
Samtal Dondald Trumps við forseta Úkraínu hefur nú verið birt.
Eins og fram kemur í samtalinu -- óskar Donald Trump eftir því við Zelensky, að hann framkvæmi rannsókn á gerðum -- sonar Joseph eða Joe Biden, en sonur Biden hefur um árabil haft stöðu formanns stjórnar eins helsta gasfyrirtækis Úkraínu.
--Þetta er auðvitað af hverju allt er vitlaust í Bandaríkjunum.
- Trump hefur viðurkennt - að fyrir samtalið hafði hann fyrirskipað að haldið væri eftir fé sem nemur hundruðum milljóna Dollara, sem Úkraína á að fá.
- Trump hafnar því, tilgangur hafi verið að hafa áhrif á Zelensky forseta.
Eins og fram kemur í samtalinu, þá er Zelensky til í að taka við Guilany og vinna með honum að slíkri rannsókn!
- Rétt að benda á, að Joe Biden er í framboði - vill verða forseta-efni Demókrata.
Þetta auðvitað skiptir máli!
- Bendi auki á, að Bush forseti skipaði son Bidens á sínum tíma, hann hefur því verið þarna lengi.
Rétt auk þess að nefna, að Úkraína er í lánaprógrammi - auk þess undir eftirliti.
Úkraína fær skv. lánaprógramminu, reglulega peninga!
En á móti, þarf Ukraína að uppfylla skilyrði.
--Eitt sem reglulega er þrýst á, er að hreinsa innan kerfisins.
--Að spilltum embættismönnum sé ítt til hliðar.
Um það snýst ekki síst ein deilan - um þennan saksóknara, sem sonur Biden hafði þrýst á að mundi hætta -- rétt að nefna, Biden var ekki einn að fara fram á slíkt.
--Úkraína fær einnig peninga frá AGS - auk þess taka Frakkland, Þýskaland og Bretland þátt -- fulltrúar þeirra landa hafi einnig beitt sama þrýstingi.
--Sonur Biden, sé einn þeirra aðila, sem löndin sem lána Úkraínu hafa komið fyrir, til að horfa yfir öxlina á stjórnvöldum Úkraínu.
- Það virðist greinilegt -- að Trump er að fiska eftir einhverju óhreinu.
- En vandinn er sá -- að það er líklega ólöglegt af honum, að fara þess fram við Zelansky, að sonur Biden sé rannsakaður -- til þess líklega koma höggi á Joe Biden.
En lög Bandaríkjanna banna það, að -dirt- gegn stjórnmálakeppinauti - sé aflað með tilstuðlan erlendra aðila.
--Fyrir utan er það ekki hlutverk Trumps að standa fyrir rannsóknum, Bandaríkin hafa sérstakar lögreglustofnanir sem ætlað er slík hlutverk.
--Trump sé því líklega að seilast út fyrir valdsvið forseta -- er líklega er einnig lögbrot, hugsanlega stjórnarskrárbrot.
Tilvitnanir úr eftirfarandi lögum Bandaríkjanna: 52 USC 30121, 36 USC 510
- A foreign national shall not, directly or indirectly, make a contribution or a donation of money or other thing of value, or expressly or impliedly promise to make a contribution or a donation, in connection with any Federal, State, or local election.
- A solicitation is an oral or written communication that, construed as reasonably understood in the context in which it is made, contains a clear message asking, requesting, or recommending that another person make a contribution, donation, transfer of funds, or otherwise provide anything of value.
Þetta er tekið úr lögum um kosningar -other things of value- getur greinilega vísað til upplýsinga - ætlað að styðja við framboð viðkomandi, eða skaða framboð einhvers tiltekins.
Seinni lögin, snúast um það - að bandarískur borgari má ekki stuðla að lögbroti.
Hefur Donald Trump hnotið um þessar lagagreinar?
Samtal Donalds Trumps við Zelansky forseta í heild!
The President: Congratulations on a great victory. We all watched from the United States and you did a terrific.job. The way.you came from behind, -somebody who wasn't given much of a chan�e, and you ended up winning ea�ily. It'� a fantastic achievement. Congratulations.
President Zelenskyy: You· are absolutely right Mr. Presideht. We did win big and we worked hard for _this. We worked a lot but I would like to confe$s to you that I had �n opportunity to learn from you. We used quite a few of your skills· and knowledge and were able to use .it as an example to·r our ele.ctions -and.yes it is-true that these were unique elections. We were in a·unique situation· that we· were able to achieve a unique success. I'm able to tell you the following; the first time,\ you· called me to · congratulate .me .when I won mypresid�ntial election, and the second time you are now calling me when my party won the parliamentary election. I think I should run more often so you can call me more often and we can talk over the phone more often.
The Pre�:ddent: [laughter] That's a very good idea. T · think your c·ount,ry is very happy about that.
President Zelenskyy: Well yes, to tell you the truth, we are trying to work hard because we wanted to drain the swamp here in our country. We brought in many many new people. Not the old politicians, not the typical politicians, because we want to have a new format and a new type of government .. You are a great teacher for us and in that.
The President: Well it1s·very nice of you .to say that. I will say that we do ·a lot for Ukraine. We spend a l.ot of effort and a lot.of time. Much more than the European countries are ·'doing and they should be helping.you more than.they are. Germanydoes almost nothing for you. All they do is talk and I thinkit's something that you should ·really ask them about. When I.was··speaking to Angela Merkel she talks Ukraine, but she ·doesn't do·anything. A lot of the European countries are the. same way· so Ithink it's.something you want to look at but the United States has been very·very good to Ukraine. I wouldn't say that it'sreciprocal necessarily because things are happening that are notgood but the United States has been very very.good to Ukraine.
President Zelenskyy: Yes you are·absolutely right. �ot.only 100%, but actually 1000% arid I can tell you the following; I did talk to Angela �erkel and I did meet.with her. I also met and talked with. Macron and I told them that they are not doing quite as much as they need to be doing·on the issues with the sanctions. They are not enforcing the sanctions. They are not working as much as .they should work for Ukraine� It turns outthat even though logically, the European Union should be our biggest· partner but technically the United States is a much bigger partner than.the European Union and-I'm very grateful to you for that because the United States is doing quite a· lot for Ukraine. Much more than the E"�ropean Union especially when we are talking about sanctions against the Russia,n Federation. r·· would also·li�e to thank you·for.your great support iri the area of defe.nse. We. are ready to continue to cooperate for the next steps. specifically we a·re almost. ready to buy more Javelins from ·_ the United· States for defense purposes .
The· President: I would like you to do us a favor thoughbecause our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows alot about it. I would like you to find out what happened withthis whole si�uation with Ukraine, they s_ay Crowdstrike ... I guessyou have one of your weal thy people... The server, they sayUkraine has.it� There-are a lot. of things that went on, the·:whole situation .. I think you1 re _surrounding yourse·lf with someof the same people. I .would like to have the Attorney Generalcall you or your people and I would like you t� ·get to the bottom of it�. As you sa� yest�rday, that whole nonsetise ended with a very poor performance by a man named Robert Mue�le_r, an incompetent performance-, _but they. say a lot of it started with Ukraine. Whatever you can do, ·it's very important that· you. do it if that's possible.
President Zelenskyy: Yes it is. very important for me and everything that you just mentioned earlier. For me as a President,-· it is very important and we are open for any future cooperation. We are ready to· open a new page on �ooperation in . relations between the United· States and Ukraine.· For that·purpose, I just recalled our.ambassador from United States and he will be replaced by a very competent and very experienced ambassador who wtll work hard on making sure that our two nations are getting clciser. I would also like and hope to see him having your trust and y9ur .confidence and _have persona·1 relations·with you so we c�n cooperate even �ore so. I·wili.personally tell you that one· of my assistants·spoke with Mr.Giuliani just.recently and we are hoping very much that Mr. G1uliani will be able to travel to Ukraine and.we will meet once·he co�es to Ukraine. I just wanted to assure you once again_thatyou _have nobody but friends around-us. I w.ill make sure -that-Isurro�nd myself with the best and most experienced people._ Ialso· wanted to·tell you that we are friends. We are great·friends and you Mr. President have. friends -in our country so wecan continue our strategic·ï¿½artn�rship. I also plan to surround· myself with great people ·and in addition to that investigation,I guarantee as the President of Ukraine that all theinvestigations.will be done_openly and candidly .. That I canassure you ..
The Pre·sident: Good because I· heard you had a prosecutorwho· was very·good and he was shut down and that's really unfair._·A lot of people are talking about that, the way they shut your�ery good prosecutor down and you had some �ery bad peopleinvolved. Mr. Giuliani is a highly respected man. He was the_mayor bf New York Ci:ty, a great mayor, and I would like him to call you. I will ask him to call yoti along with the Attorney·_ ··General.· :Rudy very much knows what's happening and he is a verycapable guy. If you could _speak to him that would be great. Theformer ambassador from the United $tates,· the woman., was badnews �nd th� people she was dealing with in.the Ukraine.were badnews so I jtist wan� to_let you know that� The ot�er thing,There's a lot 6f.talk about Biden's son,. that Eiden stopped theprosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that sowhatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great.Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so ifyou ·can look into it ... It sounds horrible to me.
President Zelenskyy: I wanted to tell ·you about theprosecutor� First df �11 I understand arid I'm kn6wledgeable.abotit the situation. Sine� we ha�e �on· the ab�olute majority inour Parliament; the next prosecutor .general will be 100%_ myperson, my c'andidate, who will be approved, by the parliament andwill start. a_s a new prosecutor in September. He or she will look.into the situation, specifically to the company that you-mentioned in :this issue. The issue of the investigation of thecase is �ctually the issui of �aking sure to res�o�e the honestyso we will take care of.that and wi11·wo:tk on the investigationof the case. On top of that, I would kindly ask you if you haveany additional information that you can provide ·to μs, it would_be very helpful · for the investigation t·o make· su.re that weadminister justice i':r1 our country with regc:ird: to the Ambassadorto the United States from Ukraine as far as I recall her namewas Ivanovicli. It was great that you were the first one. who toldme that she was a bad ambassador because I agree·with you 100%.Her attitude to.wards me was far from the best as she admired theprevious President and she was on his· side. She would not accept�e as a new President· well enough.
The President: Well, ·she' s going tO go through somethings. I will.have Mr. Giuliani.give you a call and I _am. alsogoing to have.Attorney General Barr call and we will get to· thebottom of it. I'm sure you will figure it o�t. I heard theprosecutor was treated very badly and he was a very fa�rprosecuto_r so good luck with everything. Your. economy is going-·to get better and bett.er I pre.diet. You have a lot· of a,ssets.It's a great country. I have many Ukrainian friends, theirincredible ·people.
President Z�lenskyy: I would like to tell you that I alsohave.quite a few·Ukrain1an friends that live iri the United·States. ·Actually last time I traveled to the Unit'ed States, Istayed in New York n�ar Central Park and I stayed at the Trump Tower. I will t·alk to thetn and I hope to see t_hem· again in the future. I also w·anted to _.thank you .for your invitation to visit the United States, specifically Washington DC. On ,the other hand, I also wartt td ensur� ·you that we will. be ��ry serious about.the case and will work on the investigation. As to.the economy, there is much potential for our two countries and o_ne of· the ·issues. that is ve:;ry important for Ukraine is· energy independence. I believe we can b� very succ�ssful. and cooperating on energy independence witp United States. We -are already working on cooperation. We are buying Americ�n oil but I am very hopeful for-·a future meeting. We will have more time and more opportunitie� to discuss these opportunities· and get to know each other better. I would like to thank you very much for your s-v.pport
The President: Good. Well., thank you very much and I appreciate that. I will tell Rudy and Attorney General Barr to.· call. Thank you. Whenever you would like -to come to the White House,. feel ·fr�e to call. ·Give us a date and we'll work that. out. I ·1ook forward to seeing you.
President ·zelens�yy: Thank ·you very much. I would be very happy to come and would be happy to meet with you per�onally and I . . . get to know. you better. ::r: am l.ooking forward to our meeting arid I .also would like ·-to invite you to visit Ukraine and come to the city bf Kyiv which is a beautiful city. We have a beautiful country Which would welcome you. On the other hand, I believe that on Septernber_l we will be in Poland and we can meet in Poland hopefully. After that,· it might be a very good idea for you to.travel to Ukraine. We can either take my plane and go to Ukraine or we can take your plane, which is probably mucl� better than mine.
The President: Okay,. ·we can work that ·out. I look forwar·a to seeing you in Washington and maybe in· Poland bec·ause I think we are going to be there at that tlme .
President · Zelenskyy: Thank you very much Mr. President.
The President:· Congratulations on· a fantastic job you've done-. The whole world was watching. I'm not sure it was so much of an upset but congratulations.
President Zelenskyy: Thank you Mr. President bye-bye .
Eins og þarna kom fram -- mjög sérstakt samtal, Zelansky greinilega -fawning.-
Alveg tilbúinn að rannsaka hvað það er sem Trump vill að hann rannsaki!
Niðurstaða
Skv. fréttum hafa Demókratar hafið undirbúning að -impeachment- út af því sem fram kemur í þessu samtali. Höfum í huga, staða Zelansky er afar veik gagnvart Trump. Úkraína afar háð því að fjármögnun berist.
Mér virðist afar ólíklegt að Zelansky hafi ekki vitað af því, að Trump var búinn að tefja hundruð milljóna dollara greiðslu til Úkraínu -- er þeir ræddust.
Zelansky er sannarlega -fawning- nægilega, hrósar Trump - lofar öllu því sem Trump fer fram á, Zelansky auk þess lofar að kaupa vopn og olíu frá Bandaríkunum, fyrir utan að bjóða Trump í opinbera heimsókn -- Trump býður Zelansky.
Greinilega á eiga Guilany og saksóknari Bandaríkjanna, að skoða -- meint mál tengt syni Biden sérstaklega, og Zelensky lofar fullu samstarfi.
- Eins og fram hefur komið fram, eru Demókratar bálreiðir því.
Að Donald Trump sé að beita Úkraínu fyrir sinn vagn -- í von um að fiska eitthvað óþægilegt fyrir Joe Biden.
--Hinn bóginn, er sú tilraun Trumps líklega ólögleg!
- Eins og kemur fram í laga-tilvinun, er erlendum ríkisborgurum bannað að hafa áhrif á kosningahegðan í Bandaríkjunum.
- Rannsókn á syni Biden getur skoðast sem slík tilraun.
- Bandarískum ríkisborgurum er auk þess bannað - að stuðla að lögbroti.
- Skv. því, væri þátttaka Guilani og ríkissaksóknara á afar gráu svæði -- ef þær færu til Úkraínu til þess að rannsaka son Biden, í von um að málið komi Biden eldri í vanda.
--Þetta sé grunnur -impeachment- sem Demókratar hafa nú loks hafið.
- Bendi á að jafnvel þó hugsanlega hafi sonur Bidens gert e-h rangt, sé það ekki hlutverk Trumps -- að standa fyrir slíkum rannsóknum.
Enda eru til þar til bærir rannsóknar-aðilar í Bandaríkjunum.
Framkvæmdavaldið sé ekki lögregla -- þetta mál þess fyrir utan greinilega of nærri persónulegum hagsmunum Trumps, að koma höggi á Joe Biden.
--Og með því að aðstoða Trump - er saksóknari Bandaríkjanna orðinn hlutdrægur í málinu og auðvitað er Guilani það sem persónulegur lögfræðingur Trumps.
Bandaríkin hafi 3-skiptingu valds. Rannsókn á pólitískum andstæðingum, sé algerlega örugglega utan valdsviðs Trumps -- hvernig sem málinu væri snúið.
Og því líklega lögbrot burtséð frá þeim lagatilvitnunum sem ég kom með.
Kv.
Flokkur: Utanríkismál/alþjóðamál | Facebook
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Einar Björn Bjarnason
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Athugasemdir
Lögin sem þú vitnar til snúast bara um fjárstuðning. Það kæmi ekki á óvart að lekinn hafi verið með samþykki Trumps. Hann er ekki að gera annað í þessu símtali en að hvetja til þess að rannsókn á mögulegu brotamáli verði tekin upp að nýju. Ekkert ólöglegt við það, jafnvel þótt hin mögulegu brot tengist andstæðingi hans. Verði Trump ákærður, sem ég efa stórlega, kemur mál Bidens upp á yfirborðið. Og það er einmitt það sem Trump vill.
Trump kann að virka kjánalegur og asnalegur gaur út á við. En hann veit hvað hann er að gera.
Þorsteinn Siglaugsson, 26.9.2019 kl. 00:00
Ég hafna þeirri túlkun. Tilgangur laganna var að takmarka - tilraunir útlendinga til að skipta sér af kosningum í Bandar. Það sé klárlega rétt að skilgreina að - eitthvað sem hafi verðmæti - séu einnig upplýsingar. En það klárlega - þrengir tilgang laganna, ef upplýsingar eru ekki hugsanlegt verðmæti. Ég skil að lögfræðingar Trumps og á vegum Repúblikana -- muni halda á lofti þröngri túlkun. En ég stórefa það sé -- réttmætasta túlkun þessa orðalags. Thing of value - - geti verið upplýsingar, sem skipta máli - geti haft áhrif á kosningahegðan.
--Annað minnki stórfellt skilvirkni þeirra laga, bendi aftur á upphaflegan tilgang að takmarka getu útlendinga til afskipta.
--Skv. mínum skilningi á -common law- er það gjarnan einmitt að því marki sem upphaflegur tilgangur lögjafans sé greinanilegur - lykilatriði í túlkun.
Í mínum augum sé víð túlkun hugtaksins miklu eðlilegri.
**En klárlega verður tekist á um þetta atriði milli lögfræðinga síðan dómara.
Kv.
Einar Björn Bjarnason, 26.9.2019 kl. 01:14
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